and there should be signs in the sun and in the moon and the stars and upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity the sea and the waves roaring men's hearts failing them for fear and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth for the powers of heaven shall be shaken one man one microphone one mission
one message trunews the only newscast reporting the countdown to the second coming of jesus christ here is in time newsman rick wiles this is true news on dr. burkhardt my guest today is pastor rick wiles i record this interview with him prior to his departure to san juan puerto rico
and we read all the emails and letters are sent renews every day and we often see recurring questions and topics and emails and letters i thought it would be helpful to our audience if we separate the themes and topics into categories and set aside a true news program from time to time if pastor rick time to answer them in depth now for today's
program i want you here with the tree news team hears in person from pastor rick about this ministry and its purpose now pastor rica sometimes up we get a letters and emails from listeners and here's a common question that we will have weird sometimes received sometimes i get confused listening to you your program is called true news but you talk
about flowing streams are you managing and building two separate ministries but that's a great question and it is a a regular question that we see every week which tells me that you know there's some confusion in our audience you know in what we're doing right and we need to explain it are we hear this from time to time and
and it reminds me that the only thing folks know about us is what they here in an hour or so every day right and so it's easy for us to throw around terms and think that everybody understands forward doing and then you forget that they're only listing for an hour every day so it's absolutely so let's start with the basics the great commission has
found in matthew 28 that's what altar churches are operating under all this meat the divine authority of the great commission right jesus said to the disciples all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth go therefore and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the father and of
the son and of the holy spirit teaching them to observe all things that i have commanded you and lo i am with you always even to the end of the age so the great commission is in effect until the end of the age the end of the age is the second coming of jesus christ right so jesus instructed the church of god to go into all the world preach the gospel
make disciples of all men and women the universal church of god is composed of all believers in the world and all the nominations and all nations and races obviously each of us as individuals cannot go into all the nations that preach the gospel baptized convert and teach them to observe the commandments how do we do it corporately together as
the universal church of god we go into all the nations to preach the gospel each of us however as it individual role and responsibilities in helping the universal worldwide church of god fulfill the great commission okay now back to the question about your news and flowing streams are official legal name
is flowing streams flowing streams is a non-denominational christian church here in vero beach florida we are a media-driven church in other words we are as a church were commissioned by god to use state-of-the-art media technology to communicate the gospel to as many people as possible and as many nations of the world as possible
the way i see doc is if the great apostles of the book of acts if they were here today they wouldn't ride donkeys turn or walk from town to town to preach the gospel they would be using the best technology tools available to them absolutely so they would use the technology that we have present us today
to reach tens of millions of people without leaving the town that they're living in but true news is a media ministry of flowing streams here's an example little help you understand most people have heard of tbn right which stands for trinity broadcasting network now doc you and i know there is no such entity tbn right
there is no legal functioning body call tbn not even though we see it on tv with your broadcast the official name is trinity christian center of santa ana and so that's like the covering ministry if you will where tb and broadcast out of that's right so if you're hired as an employee you're an employee of the trinity
christian center of santa ana that's what's going to be on your paycheck right another example can and gloria copeland they've been on tv for decades most people recognize the name kenneth copeland ministries kcm once again there is no kcm the entity is eagle mountain international church right
another example jimmy swaggart ministries and they also have some life network great radio network in a television network but the entity is family worship center right is part of the church outreach ministry their marriage so if you were sending a an official legal letter to reach that ministry you would not address it to
jimmy swaggart ministries you would address it to family worship center because that is the legal corporate name of of that of the church and ministry right ok so our name is flowing streams true news is a a ministry of flowing streams as i said it's not legal entity it is a ministry of flowing stream so when i mentioned flowing streams that's
who we are right true news is a radio program that has been operating now for 18 years pastor that begs the question then what's the purpose of flowing streams then the primary mission of flowing streams is to actively engage in the creation development production and distribution
of wholesome christ-centered family-friendly media content that communicates christian doctrine creed's sacraments rights rituals beliefs practices values and worldview and strengthens and nourishes the saints of god with knowledge and understanding of the word of god and provides families with a viable alternative source of
media content that counters the negative destructive atheistic idolatrous anti-family and sinful media content produced and distributed by many media entities in the world that's a mouthful but that is our official mission but i just read to you that is our official mission right and our primary objectives are number one to contribute to the
cause production development and growth of a digital christian ecosystem that provides a global online community for like-minded confessing christians who share the core values doctrine beliefs and practices of the christian faith promotes fellowship and harmony and unity among believers of all races and
nationalities and denominations number two to engage in the creation of wholesome family-friendly audio and video media content number three engage in the creation development production and distribution of movies films documentaries animation and other forms of electronic part number for engage in the development production and
distribution of the creative arts including theater drama comedy literature music dance painting sculpture that express god's love of mankind and influences the culture with the positive and uplifting principles that reflect the teaching of jesus christ our mission also includes establishing artistic colonies for
writers musicians singers artists sculptors dancers theatrical and film artists and others involved in using creative arts to convey in portray christian beliefs and values engage in the writing editing publication and distribution of printed and electronic bibles books magazines manuals guides newspapers and other publications to
advance and promote christian beliefs and values established maintain and oversee state-of-the-art communication facilities for the creation editing production and distribution of audio video and electronic and or print content that promotes christian beliefs and values engage in the gathering reporting
publication and electronic transmission of news current events public affairs for the edification and education of confessing christians and analyzed in comment on news current events and public affairs according to a conservative orthodox traditional christian worldview and lastly to establish maintain and oversee
educational institutions to educate train and equip students to develop and enhance their skills in a communications media and the arts a doc you can see that is a big vision yes it is that's going to take decades to accomplish it this is going to take longer than i'll be around to live on this planet
it will take many decades to accomplish this vision book we have started right we're laying the groundwork with putting in the foundation so that future generations of christians will build on this foundation when people are listening to treat news they're listening just one facet over the overall ministry a flowing strength
right you listed nine different objectives there that's right turn news really fits in only one of those that's right so when people are listening to the broadcast today they need to understand that you only listen to one facet of the overall vision and ministry of the larger dream of flowing stream that's right
it took us a long time to get this far and we have we have throughs has become an established brand name and the united states and and indeed around the world we have listeners and supporters on every continent but in the united states and canada it is a well-known brand name people recognize true news right and this is the beginning of of the media
vision that the lord gave me years ago to establish an alternative media a presence in the world well since you're speaking about meeting you and i have been involved in christian media in various forms for decades we won't tell people how many ages both but pastor a lot of changes in media in
general the past few years what's the current state of of christian media and where do you see it going from here pastor i think christian tv and radio pete years ago and i think it's been on autopilot for a decade or so i it's become stale it's so there's little creativity and innovation i i think it's become irrelevant too many christians
not forget about just the non-christians i'm talking about solid biblically-based god-loving christians many of them no longer listen to christian radio or watch christian tv why it's it's become irrelevant to them it's not that the gospels become irrelevant right it's the media the way it's being packaged in presented and distributed it's become
irrelevant to them and that bothers me because long-term i see the decline and and if it's not if that decline is not arrested and turned around christian media will eventually disappear what other factors dc there well there's a couple things stock many of the most well-known personalities and christian tv and radio are aging as fast as their
existing audiences that's a major problem that's that's good maybe just looking at this from a you know a commercial business viewpoint you're looking at it and you're saying the audience is aging and the personalities are aging right at some point it will fall off the cliff if somebody doesn't get in there and do something new and
shake it up christian radio and television will start a major decline well like you said the audience is aging as well and it doesn't seem like christian tv and radio are really catching up know and and just you know if you just take one 1 category on christian radio and tv personality
television of just the topic of of bible prophecy almost all of the leading figures on christian tv in bible prophecy are in their mid to late 80 some of them getting ready to quest into the nineties right yeah and god bless i mean they've been warriors they be out there and they do it every day they're doing it every day and i admire them but
you just have to look at you you have to look at this at the stats and you realize this isn't going to continue much longer where is the next generation of men and women to come forth and take their place how are we going to do this how we going to expand the audience for christian tv and radio i likewise the audience's
aging a christian tv and radio broadcast networks are are not doing a good job attracting a younger audience right its order christians who are watching christian tv and listening to christian radio the older christians are also the people who are financing christian tv and radio yes and that's important there yeah and without without that older
demographic group of christians none of these ministries would be existing that's right under the dock is this for real i mean the christians and the 50-60 seventies and eighties their financing the vast majority of christian ministry yes they're in this country today but what happens when those people are no longer with us
will there be any meaningful christian media available to young families a decade from now that's what concerns me 10 years can go by really fast talk it flies by and in 10 years from now i'm concerned about what will be the state of christian media who will be watching will anybody be watching or listening to you talk about changes in 10 years think
about just 10 years ago pastor the iphone didn't exist on us right i mean in 2006 and that has completely changed everything we do technology is changing everything that we do that's right i mean we're prime example of the beginning of this year we cancel a hundred and sixty radio affiliates am/fm radio affiliates the only the only
broadcast station were still on is our own station that we own here in vero beach to be vro we canceled everything else because the the phone was our primary distribution channel and next fastest changed and you've seen these technology changes impact christian media through the years as well i'm so that was some i was there at the
christian broadcasting network cbn in the nineteen eighties when dr. pat robertson was trailblazing a new path for christian media he started the first christian tv station in 1960 1962 the very first christian tv station jim baker was there at the time and jim pioneered the creation of the 700 club a tv program at which would for all
practical purposes was the first christian variety program right and you know that time to 700 club was revolutionary right with jim baker did was was so new that nobody's ever thought about a christian variety program but they they did it they made it work and then if you skip to 1977 april of nineteen seventy-seven that's
the next major step in christian media they were to christian satellite networks launched in the same month the same year jim baker launch the ptl satellite network and pat robertson launched the cbn satellite service in april nineteen seventy-seven up cbn then change their name to see be in cable network was the 1981 and that happened
about a year after the launch of the first two television networks that were designed exclusively for cable television cnn and espn so i was hired by cbn in the 1980s as the network's first national cable affiliate marketing manager and doc i got the job because i remembered i remember as senior vice president cb and telling me i rick we
don't have anybody working here at the network whoever worked in a cable television system and we've been trying to find a a christian working in the cable system on the local level to come to work for us and so that's how i got the job i got arrange that we know you know the lord's hand was under he you know one of those divine connections and
they had a position open and i found out about it and and and so that's how i got hired at cbn appoint you talk back in those days the excitement i still remember the the excitement the energy i still remember and i can see like it was yesterday pat robertson standing in front of us employees talking about the vision right
a christian satellite network a christian television network and he was full of enthusiasm this was new was revolutionary we were going to take christ into the cable television industry and present a a professional christian network and you know those of us who you know we were young i was in my early thirties i mean this was this
was powerfully was revolutionary and and i was excited to be there to be part of of history we were doing something that nobody had ever done those you know those were exciting days but 1980 how many decades ago is that ben now let's don't even count i mean you were talking nearly four decades ago you know that i know it
doesn't seem possible and christian media has not kept up with the changes that's the point i'm making here today it's almost as we got locked in the eighties there we never moved beyond you got it that's it right there doc it was like arrested development that's what his psychologist would call it a child psychologist arrested
development big christian media got stuck in a tease and they've never moved beyond the eighties and so you made that transition from cbn to tbn write it and in at that time think about this tbm when i was in the early eighties paul crouch and they only had a handful stations right they started out as the tv network itself or they start now they
started out as one station in santa ana california that's why they're called that's where they started that is a church in santa ana california right and they had one station which they they could barely handle keep it going i remember paul telling me that their first studio set was a shower curtain wow that i mean that's a humble
beginning so when when ptl and cbm were on satellite tv and was still struggling just to get out of santa ana get a signal to santa ana it's amazing the progress that they made they didn't tv and did not go on to saddle into 1982 and and then there in the nineteen nineties paul crouch hard me is the
director marketing of of tv and that's you know that's when i moved to texas and and you know it was a i was still arm still a wild western christian media that time when i you played role in the expansion of creative christian tv in the eighties and nineties as what was that like pastor at that time again i was like we we we felt like we were on a
great mission we we were making history we were we were conquering territory for christ and we were engaging in the marketplace with the gospel in the primary job i had a tv n doc as marketing director was to convince able systems to put tbm on the cable system and then at that time is when the dbs industry started direct broadcast
satellite right and head there were three primary players directv which was owned by use of which had satellite of you know hughes aircraft which was owned by general motors right and then there was a prime star remember them doesn't exist anymore and there was dish network charlie ergen and and so i played a role in getting tbn on directv prime star and
and dish they were to us that we are tv and we work together to negotiate those contracts and and to persuade directv and and dish and prime star 2 to launch christian tv listen i was there when eddie hardened stein at that time i don't know if he's still around or not he was the president of directv ceo and he pounded his dustin said there will be
no religion on directv and so i had to my challenge my assignment is marketing director was to change his mind and that was not an easy task and that was hit hard core visceral opposition to put in christianity on directv we had to persuade them but you know what doc you couldn't pay directv any amount of money today to convince them to take christian
right programming off a directv they need it they needed yeah cause they have a significant subscriber base you better leave it at least for now yes for now right now because even last week pastor directv they rolled out and over-the-top system for mobile devices and phone so it's not like company is moving out of the satellite business the
landscape is is changing right and so they they're going to try to hold onto christian subscribers as the best that they can but in those days you it was a battle to get them to put christian television on a cable system or directv do you know what we you know this is a true story charlie ergen who is a billionaire and found a dish network and
i met with him and his office and in denver colorado and i still remember still remember dr. t the holes in the carpet in his office a stuck in my mind charlie charlie ergen today's a billionaire right dave i remember sitting there thinking let's go this guy's too cheap to put new carpet in his
office sorry but i know looking back i you know now i know why he's a billionaire because he didn't he didn't spend his money on carpet he spent his money on the vision the vision was to launch a satellite television direct-to-home satellite television that was his vision charlie charlie started out selling
satellite dishes the big old c-band right now i remember those the new those things have massive satellite dishes this he was a satellite salesman that's what he did for a living he sold and installed satellite dishes and he got it came up with this idea what if we gotta figure we could have a a satellite in space that could transmit to a tiny
little dish on a rooftop that was the vision and drove him it drove him in and charlie charlie was a humble guy he was in fact a donkey gave me a he gave me a blue denim shirt with the dish logo on and i wore that thing out i think i wore that thing until susan i think she probably threw it in the trash one day would without me knowing about it
because i i just ward for years but but charlie charlie tried several times to launch the dish network this is a true story i recall his first two satellite launches exploded and you know back then in our satellite transponders weren't cheap need to put a satellite into space we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars in investment and the first two
rockets exploded on launch he was down one more strike and all the trade publications were saying if charlie ergen if this one blows up charlie ergen is out of the game right nobody will give him any money so he raised the money for one more rocket and you know this is what happened
um we at tbn dr. krauss paul crouch we gave paul cross an idea and paul krauts called charlie ergen and told him the idea and charlie did it all crowd said let's put a miniature bible on that satellite and charlie agreed to it and paul crowd sent to charlie ergen a miniature bible which was attached to the satellite wow and the satellite made
it into space and the dish network was born and charlie ergen put tbn on dish network my friends that's a true story that's how we got tv and on to dish network and the rest is history the rest is history yeah and then that followed by directv and prime star and then prime star was
bought out and so forth but charlie ergen god honored charlie ergen but that was the limits of the technology at that time that was it wasn't it but that was really far-out cutting-edge technology direct satellite to your house if we're talking about the nineties the nineteen nineties doc it was a revolutionary and but we were there on the forefront of
expanding christian media from into a direct satellite to home broadcasting right and and it was an exciting time i think it's important for our listeners to understand that you know when they're listening to trey news you're listening to this is part of a much larger broader vision we're seeking to take advantage of the most current
technology in order to share the gospel that's where i'm at right now i look back over my career doc and and is now i see the hand of god at the time i was too this too dumb and i'll just to see how god was directing me he was directing me before saved it would be in radio in the nineteen seventies when fm was the cutting-edge oh man this makes
me sound really old and i there must be young listeners right now going you got to bk this game must be a dinosaur listen when i was young at them was the cutting-edge technology right am radio was king right fm high fidelity sound that's right and so i got a job selling advertising at a new fm radio station and i had to go out and tell explain to
bankers and car dealers and restaurant owners what fm was and why they should have their business on fm rather than am i was that was the nineteen seventies that was cutting-edge technology 1980 lord move me cable television i just happened to walk into our local cable television office to pay cable bill and everybody there in
the town knew me from selling advertising i was a and always a sales rep right and other person there the cable and this was back when you actually went into a utility to pay your bill right like once again online payment it didn't exist folks because there was no internet right you had to get in your car and drive to the utility
and pay your bill right if you didn't mail it that's the way it was done and as i walked in and and and the receptionist there said to me said ricky you know you you might want to apply for a new job here what is it advertising sales but this is a cable company what do you mean i don't know they're advertised they're looking
for an advertising sales manager and i got the job rockin and it turned out is it was so selling advertising on two networks that had just started something called the entertainment and sports programming network now known as espn right and the other end was the cable news network cnn and so you would sell the like the
quarter hour slots they would have for advertising i recall i think there were two slots per hour but they gave to cable companies for local ads but here's why they were doing it they were trying to entice cable companies to put cnn and espn on the cable system up until then doc their own cable systems only had 12 channels right
most of them were the local the local stations are an hbo hbo was the only cable network and he had to pay extra for it probably back then for five dollars a month right assault espn came along 24-hour sports nobody's gonna watch it that's a stupid idea and then see it on 24-hour news who
came up with that crazy idea so it was a hard sell so they gave the cable companies 24 minutes an hour forget what it was for local ads and the town that i lived in they were in the first 10 cable companies in the nation wow to start selling i saw i was a pioneer and i didn't even know it
i had no idea i just took the job and so well what are we gonna do with this gonna make it work and then out of that we actually created i started with what was called a a regional able advertising interconnect and so basically you would work with other cable systems and the original iron out and about four different states and contracted with
cable systems and i said hey we have made this a success and we know how to sew advertising and we will sell your advertising for you produced the commercials put the equipment and hire the people pay do all that and we'll send you a you know a portion of the revenue every month and i signed up a whole bunch of cable systems back then
but you could not only just sell one system now you can sell a whole bunch of systems simultaneously so i was in my late twenties and i was managing sales operations in four states wow and didn't know if you knew what you were creating that didn't even know an address firm yesterday that's literally what we created an advertising redfern
yeah and won a national award in new york city forward and analysis it was an exciting time doc you associate was everything was new was the kind of the.com boom of of the eighties and now things are new again aren't they yeah they are yeah we're doing new opportunities that's right after all is a go a little bit because we we do get a
lot of a question from folks about one topic in particular bloody emails a lot of questions occasional phone call where they asked whether or not true news is a 501c3 ministry and we talked about this on the program quite a bit but maybe it might be a good opportunity to explain what what's going on here is turning is a 501c3 ministry
no we are not and let me explain why and uh this is where it gets confusing for people your donations to true news are tax-deductible why because true news is a ministry of flowing streams flowing streams as a church there for your donations to flowing streams are deductible and people get confused about
this you do not have to be a 501c3 approved ministry from the irs to be tax-deductible i'm gonna have to walk through this dock because there's a lot of misunderstanding among christians about this issue ok a church is automatically tax-exempt i actually i prefer that the phrase tax immune
here's why i because offerings to god belong to the lord they don't pass through the irs or a tax exemption and offering is off-limits to the irs why because the offering is holy i like that it belongs to god it never went through the irs for processing they have nothing to do with it it's god offering to god so i don't see i don't
like using the phrase tax-exempt that's the phrase that people use i brotherly understand that they understand but i i liked that too mark 22 then the pharisees went and plotted how they might entangle him in his talk and they sent to him there disciple saying teacher we know that you are true and teach the way of god in truth nor do you
care about anyone or you do not regard the person of men tell us therefore what do you think is that lawful to pay taxes to caesar or not but jesus perceived their wickedness and said why do you test me you hypocrites show me the tax money so they brought him a denarius and he said to them whose image and inscription is this
they said to him caesars and he said to them render therefore to caesar the things that are caesar's and to god the things that are gods when they had heard these words they marveled and left him and went their way rock christians should pay their taxes yes pay your taxes i and sent material as long as i've been
on the radio by people trying to convince me that we did not have to pay our taxes that is not biblical right you don't have to convince me about the corrupt origin of the irs i know it whether it's corrupt or not the practical matter is it's still there you know the mafia's corrupt right and if you owe money to the mafia they're
going to collect they're going to come over break your kneecap off right you will pay so it doesn't matter whether the corrupt or not horses are corrupt pay your taxes right but caesar irs keep your grubby hands off of god's money agreed yes amen it's not yours never was yours never will be yours
we give to caesar what is caesar's we give to god what is god's offerings to god our tax immune in this country we never taxed churches we didn't chat tax churches before the irs was created axis churches have always been tax immune so the church the church of god should never submit to a tax authority caesar has no business touching a holy
offering to god the church is not beholden to the irs for tax-exempt status that's because the church they were never text whenever tax the church existed long before the irs was established and the church will be in existence long after the irs is abolished the church shall live forever
because it is the living body of christ our lord the original irs was established by abraham lincoln to collect a temporary income tax to finance the civil war years later the supreme court ruled the income taxes unconstitutional and that ruling shock the international bankers and they finally managed to slip through a
constitutional amendment in 1913 that legitimized the income-tax we also got the federal reserve at the same time so we ended up with a two-headed monster who suck the life out of the american people right but life existed dock before 1913 yes this is what we gotta remember how two churches function how did government function before 1913 yeah
they were still roads built railroads built the industry built you know in turn all that all that happened churches were built everywhere and no and there is no government agency that ever ever dreamed of trying to control a church in the united states of america unthinkable until until the irs came along and and really it took decades dock into it got
to the point where it could start exercising unconstitutional authority over churches there and that's only because the church is the pastors and congregations gave them ground allow them to come in one of the big shift when did that happen nineteen fifties ok the johnson met
lyndon johnson senator of texas didn't they were churches their pastors in in texas that were calling him corrupt pastors were denouncing him from the pulpit and he didn't like it right so he sneak through in the senate an amendment that said the churches would be prohibited from speaking out about politics and and public issues and it
passed with little notice and suddenly it it's into federal law and little by little churches have given up their their rights but they don't have to do that no all right because that amendment is attached to what is known as 501c3 right which is a part of the irs tax code this is where churches need to stand their
ground there is no need for a church to apply to the irs for tax-exempt status the church is tax-exempt period right it's even in the irs documents several times as a matter of fact if you can go online and search for irs publications about churches and religious organizations and right there on the irs
website it says churches are tax-exempt they're automatically facts exempt and they do not have to apply for 501c3 status right so what happens you know what happens a new church is starting you know in some town pastors doing a church plant he's getting a new church together a congregation starts to come together and sure enough in that
congregation will be a lawyer and a cpa and if they don't have a lawyer in a cpa somebody will raise their hand and make a motion let's hire a lawyer and a cpa and so they'll go to a lawyer and a certified public accountant and so we want to start a church what do we do you need nonprofit status you gotta get nonprofit status and how do we do this
we have to incorporate and then you have to fill out this application send it to the irs and ask them for tax-exempt no no you don't have to do that and so churches are asking for something that they've already been granted right just be a church yes it's like you saying i gotta ask someone to be a man you are man just be
a man right you don't have to get somebody's approval to be a man to be a human you are human just be human the church is the body of christ just be the church right does this apply to all nonprofit ministries are no no only church a stock ok only churches are automatically tax-exempt this is where this gets
confusing for people if you the ministry is a ministry let's say uh you start an orphanage you start a street ministry of you know you name it whatever bye you're distributing bible so you got a soup kitchen whatever right if you're not a church if you want to be tax-exempt you need you have to have the 501c3 approval so you have two options
either become a church and operate a church or fold your ministry into an existing church right one of the other because of your not a church you're not on automatically tax-exempt you have to be a church the problem is a lot of churches became 501c3 when they didn't have to and whatever the government permits they
control right you got it all right i'm gonna give you this is i'm gonna give you the description of flowing streams ok ok flowing streams derives its authority to function as a self-ruled ecclesia from the ancient divine religious order of jesus christ who as our high priests established his ecclesiam upon the earth on the day of
pentecost in the holy city of jerusalem following his death burial and resurrection to be a witness to the world of his kingdom and whom appointed and commission apostles prophets evangelists pastors and teachers to go into the world and preach the gospel of his kingdom teach the commandments of god to the human race baptized new
believers teach people the ways of god's kingdom and make disciples of all men and women therefore this statement represents the fundamental principles according to which flowing streams shall govern itself as it fulfills the commandments of our sovereign holy and righteous king what we've done right there doc is that we have declared who
and what we are how we started and what we have what we are now and where did we start we start with jesus christ we are part of the work that started in jerusalem right we trace our origins back to jerusalem yes we're part of an organization that has been in existence for 2,000 plus years right that is standing on common law that
supersedes every government that's an existence precedes you better believe it supersedes civil own and most most national governments right now in most western law is that based on that idea of common law and recognize the church from the beginning beginning that's churches need to know who they are where they came from what they're part of we
are part of that ancient ecclesia the assembly that was formed by jesus christ himself on the day of pentecost we describe ourselves as a self-ruled private association of like-minded disciples of jesus christ flowing streams is a member of the body of jesus christ now this is a really an important part
doc this is where it takes time and contemplation and an understanding from the holy spirit to get this the meaning of what i'm going to say next flowing streams shall perpetually exist and operate without civil incorporation flowing streams operates in two spears ecclesiastical and civil it does not require the authorization recognition
permission sanctioning and or licensing of any civil government or agency to exist and function in order to regulate its internal affairs but we're declaring that we exist in the spiritual realm right we do not have to be incorporated to exist we exist because we exist right we don't need someone's permission to exist
we are the body of christ you have to understand who you are as a christian the flowing streams shall however established one or more juridical persons in various political jurisdictions to oversee and manage its ecclesiastical legal civil administrative temporal and financial affairs in the pursuit of its divine
mission in other words were in the world but not of the world that's right but the church is not incorporated but the church has an incorporation write that message people's minds up they can't grasp that concept you can incorporate the church because the church is the body of christ right but the body of christ can
authorize the establishment of a corporation to hold its real estate in assets right that's where people get confused over these matters as the right to me and say ricky you know you can't can't have a church in corporation now the church can't be incorporated but the church can own a corporation her i have no problem understanding that you get it
you understand okay a lot of people don't and but once you get this down in your head you understand how the church is operated for centuries right and where these concepts came about i mean we have to function in this world we have to have places to meet we have to have assets sometimes we have to have transportation we have that means of
communication means to share the gospel it's not try opening up a bank account try getting utilities try of setting up payroll without some type of structure by printing a bible without one i mean you have even that very basic level of evangelism even just a bible itself whether it's in print or digital
form you need a structure of some kind of order to make that happen that's right now this next statement this is this is very profound flowing streams shall peacefully coexist with civil governments by voluntarily yielding to civil laws and regulations insofar as such laws and regulations are not contrary to god's divine law
expressed in the holy bible the church saying will cooperate with civil government and civil laws and regulations unless they contradict god's divine law an example might be if we're building a new church parking lot let's say and the local civil law says you have to have so many spaces for handicapped parking that would be saying
why we have great submission to that because that doesn't contradict ensuring that we believe that's right ok but if city or county came in and said how we're going to prohibit you from having if we're going to require you to have genderless bathrooms now you're not know because that would contradict who we are as a body that's right because we
recognize that god has made male and female right i'll put up with your regulations concerning you know the legacy of the parking lot or are any other you know in the in the physical structure of the of the property but you're not going to tell me what we're going to believe right that's where that comes into conflict right so churches
have to stand our ground there's a place where you use submit and cooperate you bend you love them you know you live peacefully with civil government because we have to operate within a certain level of structure but when cesar tries to dictate what the church believes and how it practices is faith that's when you draw the line right
and so that's that's that's our position here this is the first time i've ever so this i've never said this on the program this is a different program i've never expressed these things openly like this but this is our position right this is who we are we have taken a stand we are the body of christ we have our beliefs
and our worldview and we will do our best to cooperate with civil authorities but we know who we are in christ amen pastor i'm sure we've got listeners out there may be some pastors out there might be asking the question can a 501c3 church get out of being a 501c3 church yes but it's not easy it's a difficult situation but you before you try to get
out of it you got to understand how you got in it that's step number one figure out how you got in it why you got it then you can figure out how to untangle the knots and get out of it because here you've been entrapped been entrapped in it and you know i this is what i have found mostly it is the
protestant evangelical churches that fell into the 501c3 church and a 501c3 irs trap it's mainly protestant evangelical churches right because i guess most catholic churches aren't 501c3 right no that's how i learned this is how i learned this is years ago as the holy spirit was dealing with me about this and i i was frustrated and i
said god i don't understand i know what you're telling me do not be 501c3 but i don't understand how you do it and the holy spirit said do you believe the pope submits to the irs and i said of course not and the holy spirit said don't you think he should find out how he does it
doc it took me several years of intense research i had brain cells working overtime crunching and trying to process get the junk out of my head to get to that understanding first see you have to you have to get all that religious stuff out of your head to understand who and what the church's i give the catholic church credit in that they never never
compromise who they are you you've got to give the roman catholic church credit for that one thing they never compromise who and what they are they don't give an inch period right i'll give you an example puerto rico it is you know a territory of the united states right we wanted fair and square right we took it from
from spain right now fair square fight all right i'm just gonna look puerto rico alright and but it's a it's a territory of the usa has been for over a hundred years i was doing some research on how our church is formed in puerto rico ok and i found doc that there are 22 standards there's the protestant rule and the
roman catholic rule two separate rules yes okay if you're if you're protestant and you use you go to start a church in puerto rico you've got to do it by civil law of the roman catholic church operates under a concordance sign with the pope in the king of spain centuries ago and the u.s. is obligated to honor that yes well when when puerto rico came
into u.s. territory the united states government agreed to adhere to the roman catholic concordance with the king of spain regarding the operation of churches on the island of puerto rico wow the catholic search never backs down they never compromise
they've got documents in their drawers their cabinets donated dog they've got they've got legal documents and their archives to go back centuries and they enforce it is quite admirable if you just look at how they operate as an organization and yet they do operate and yet they do function you see catholic churches everywhere yes he extended
ministries of catholic church's i guess even though they're not 501c3 they can still own 501c3 and even businesses sure that matter hospitals bookstore they never compromise their independence right never you gotta give him credit they've stood their ground and and the protestant evangelical churches should learn a lesson from of the catholics in
how they have maintained their sovereign independence as a church so how would a local assembly a local church what are the steps that they would have to go through in order to get out of this 501c3 mindset um i would think of five or six things that they should do number one the governing board or the congregation i
guess maybe the congregation would pass a resolution authorizing the orderly restructuring of the church because that's what you're doing your restructuring the church right number two they really need to devote time up for church leaders to research and understand how a church can exist as an unincorporated
private association that operates and incorporated entity hold title to assets that takes some time to understand that concept then number three they would write a new constitution and bylaws then adopt the constitution and bylaws then transfer the existing assets to the new entity right and then finally dissolve the old empty entity right so there is a
step in a process because you're complicated in its gonna be complicated out that's right so so hopefully there i have some lawyers nodding your head saying yeah that's right i'm sure there are other steps here i'm just i'm just you know talking off the top of my head here you know there are a lot of steps
in this that you would have to go through because you're dissolving an old entity and forming a new entity and transferring the assets from one old entity to a new entity but when you have that new entity as a church do not file for tax-exempt status right just be at church right now faster before you have a whole bunch of people just dismiss
this is crazy talk and get emails and phone calls about all this there was recently a major ministry out there that has done something similar to what you're talking about right yes and i was surprised when i read the stock has several months ago this story is from alice eve is non profit nonprofit times.com the headline
irs reclassify this billy graham's organization this is september 26 2016 nonprofit time said billy graham evangelistic association which is bge a requested and received a determination to reclassify it as an association of churches amid ongoing battles between religious organizations in the federal government
regarding employer requirements related to healthcare ok we're talking about obamacare right the 66 year-old organization requested a determination letter from the irs on september 10 2015 reclassifying the nonprofit as an association of churches the irs provided a determination letter of charities classified as an
association of churches are not required to file form 990 in a statement to the nonprofit times the billy graham association cited three primary reasons number one the ministry had been operating as an association of churches for years as virtually everything is done in cooperation with local churches number two there are religious
exemptions in the federal tax code that only apply to associations of churches and other churches church organizations including protection of employers from government interference in matters relating to employment number three filing the annual tax form has become increasingly the owners consuming a substantial amount of ministry time and
financial resources throughout the year amen to that yes it also said that the sister organizations samaritan's purse run by franklin graham has also requested a reclassification from the irs i didn't know about that i knew about the first one but didn't know about the second i think we're going to see more
of this happening now they could have they could have of dissolved but what they're doing here is they are they're going from being a a 501c3 nonprofit ministry to being a church right and they're still in the 501c3 right they haven't by reclassifying they have not i have not come out 501c3 but they're moving in
that direction moving in that direction though and if they had not become a 501c3 in the first place they wouldn't have to be doing all these things in its right but when billy graham started none of the stuff was ever imagined it just didn't it just didn't happen back then right when billy graham started when was that the late forties
oh yeah early fifties when nobody was thinking about this kind of stuff back then i'll but it it has grown gradually become a trap now one last thing before we move on to another question i i know a lot of people are are going to write and call and asked me to assist them in getting their church out of the 501c3 trap and i
wish i could help but doc you know they're not enough hours in the day and they just can't be i'm not a lawyer i'm not a cpa i just i i just don't have that kind of time that i could be on the phone for hours with church boards and pastors day after day helping them for this mess arm you need to proceed with caution and you're going
to need a lawyer and a cpa to get out of this mess and probably one that understands that yes and you know now if you go down to this down the street to the local lawyer that got you into the 501c3 that's not the guy to get you out of it right so you're going to do some research on your own we don't have a 501c3 division here
that's right oh but the this the wise thing just don't get entangled with the iris in the first place if you're starting a new church do not file for 501c3 status just be a church amen and walk in the authority that is given to you as the ecclesia of god if you're already a 501 c features then you've got a carefully get yourself out
of that mess ok well now pastor going back to our earlier discussion about the current state of christian tv and christian radio based on everything we talked about so far what is your vision to improve that i would say it you know in one word its its content know there's a phrase content is king doc what we have
to create new content that's relevant to people today i think the reason to news is so wildly popular and successful is that we're not like any other christian program right it's shocking to some people and you see the letters and emails is shocking to some people they're not used to it right we say things that they're not used to hearing
we go into topics that that other people won't won't go there because its controversial right so we break all the rules and as for christian media is going to have to become relevant but haven't content always been the important factor in driving the technology to this point may even when you start in the cable industry it
seemed like everybody was saying well 24-hour sports would never work 24 hour news would never work but turns out there was a demand for that that's right for ate it up that's right and they became the dominant players right until now and what's happening now doc is sharp declines in the ratings of the prominent
and previously dominant cable television networks like cnn espn is it this is substantial i am are amazed at what is taking place i i'm gonna give you some examples this is from radio tv talk dot com cnn fall sharply in ratings after election the election of trump fox news has actually seen ratings grow cnn and msnbc
on the other hand have watched viewership fall sharply a tv newser did a quick check and found overall ratings for fox news grew 16-percent cnn has seen its ratings fall nineteen percent while to 760 5,000 homes msnbc dropped thirty two percent 2 559 thousand homes credible talk throughs has more people listening each night then watching msnbc
that's incredible i lee is i don't think our audience comprehends this a podcast essentially where podcast although i don't like that term podcast i think it's a stupid term i just don't like it but you know this if they had to put us in a in a classification where podcast right you're listening to us on non-broadcast
means we have more people listening to us than watching msnbc and on some nights we have more people listening to us than watching cnn right and we're doing it on donation stock we're doing this based on donations cnn has over a billion dollars i think what did i read 800 and some million per
year just for the newsroom operation while just for the reporters and and their editors and everything we're operating on donations and we have more people listening to us that's the influence that we're having right now and people are looking for content somewhere else now that's right and you get in i can only imagine how much more
we would be accomplishing if if we had more donors to support us if more people would understand the impact that we're having but in here's another and molly full espn subscriber losses take their toll on walt disney espn has been bleeding subscribers for years after peaking at 100 million in 2010 walt disney reported the subscribers
felt 292 million by 2015 nielsen indicates the network continue to lose subs through 2016 talk there hemorrhaging subscribers while espn the pioneer out there the article says there are many factors involved in the declining ratings of espn and cnn but one significant factor is cord-cutting people are cancelling
their cable tv subscriptions in massive numbers i don't have cable anymore yeah you're right why why have cable tv you don't need a now know there is a a wide variety of alternatives to cable tv here's broadcasting and cable nielsen december forecast see bigger pay-tv decline the number of cable subscribers continues to decline
fine according to the december cable universe estimates from nielsen nielsen estimates a median decline and pay-tv homes of 1.9 percent from last year combined with a 1.7 increase in total tv households the gap between tv households and paid tv households three-point-three percent among networks the biggest declines were registered by mbc use
esquire and viacom spike and cmt the viacom networks were affected by a rehearing of comcast closely watch espn was down three-point-three percent does the own networks had similar declines in november over the bottom line with this report is saying is people are cutting their cable subscriptions in massive numbers are my own grown children they
don't have you know i have a big tv at my house most of us in our age group to both my grown children they don't have a big tv their tv is in their pocket or they're carrying around their hand do you know how many homes cancelled cable in the summer of this year third quarter almost a half million doc that's incredible 486 thousand homes cancelled
their cable subscriptions in the summer of this year and and it's it's the same every quarter i mean they're they're they're dropping 926 thousand subscribers cancelled in the first nine months of 2016 almost a million subscribers well if if if you're in a business that's losing a million customers in nine months you're in a
sinking business it's no wonder directv and at&t moved to an over-the-top type service you know moving to mobile devices instead of that light even had it right now it makes perfect sense so what does this all mean pastor for the future flowing streams doc the marketplaces in turmoil and i see it as a game of musical chairs
everybody's walking around the chairs waiting for the music to stop and that includes the big boys time warner at&t directv cnn viacom disney they're all walking around the musical chairs right now but there's some small guys in this to the startups like us and we're all going around the musical chairs right now and nobody knows when the music will
stop when the music stops everybody grabs the chair and there's going to be some people without a chair ever and the ones that get a chair going to take their seats and the ones that get in there seat are going to be sitting there for probably decades they will be the dominant players for decades so right now we're in this no-man's land nobody's
really sure what it's going to look like and even the big guys are wondering and cnn and espn and viacom and disney and time warner they're all like what is going on they don't really know they don't know they're losing money they're trying new ideas and they're not working and and then these they're watching these these
upstarts come along and and the wildly successful and it's happening in various sectors in the medium and here we are two news and we are beating msnbc were a church-owned news program operating on donations and we have more people listening to train is than watching msnbc that's incredible how long will they continue to prop up these dinosaurs
at some point that the investors say enough is enough we can keep this going anymore one thing's for certain we can have a chair unless we're playing the game right that's right and so that's what we're doing we're in the game but what do you envision for flowing streams but i see doc is some but the one word
opportunity the door is wide open and i think christians should be as bold as young lions sees new territory for the kingdom of god this is our opportunity to to grab our technology and territory for the lord what would how would this country have been different if back in the thirties if christians would have
applied for most of the radio station licenses oh my goodness how about in the forties of christians would have applied for the tv station licenses there they were just maybe a handful of people that kind of vision back then very few people yeah percy crawford was one of the first time in radio he was
definitely visionary got some licenses but why didn't the christians go out there and get the licenses in the thirties why didn't get the tv station licenses in the forties and fifties and where that now yes so we allow the devil to get control of it that's right so here we are today and
that whole system that build-up over 30 40 50 60 so forth it's now in disarray and everything's up for grabs and so we're in the game we're in this game and we're saying we're here god we are here to be your agents we're believing we're trusting we have the faith we're going to take territory and we're
going to we're going to we're going to seize this new digital territory we're going into cyberspace and we're going to plant the flag of christ in cyberspace and produce new content i want to see content for children and for young people i want to see innovative christian ideas brought to a video and audio and film that
changes the culture of this nation and the world and presents christ as he is this exciting wonderful savior who loves the human race and has conquered death right i want to present him to 6 billion people who don't know about him and they're they're moving into the digital cyber realm for media communications and if we don't go there they're not gonna
know anything about jesus yeah the church isn't there they're not going to find the church so pastor i know you can't go into a lot of details but can you kind of give us some ideas of the plans for flowing streams doc but i can tell our audiences that we are quite far along and launching a christ-centered family-friendly internet
streaming service in 2017 out we we launch phase one in figure ii of this year we launched when we unveil prazer razor is the world's first all christian advertising free subscription free music streaming service in world that is no small feat know that is a mouthful of what we just said think about listen to this carefully razor is the world's
first all christian advertising free subscription free music streaming service in the world we did it here in 2016 the glory of god our partners financed it we worked on a dock for almost two years yes when you first came on board yeah i said doc i've got this idea and i don't know how to do it i don't know how to
build it and we we almost pulled our hair out that's a person here i'm just trying to figure it out we didn't know what to do how to do this it was over our head but god brought it together and we launched it and prazer is now a reality and all i can say is that we will soon do something similar in television
i had it like this in december 2015 and we unveiled prazer in early 2016 we're about to do something bigger in the months to come a pastor we start out the program you mentioned that you were flying out puerto rico can you tell us why you're making this trip not really okay you know what i really
can't say why i'm by the time people here this will be in san juan uh i i will tell you that oh we're opening an office and in puerto rico puerto rico is american territory i'm not leaving the united states puerto rico his american territory right the virgin islands american territory there are there are reasons for us to have an
operation in puerto rico and i'll be talking more about it in in the monster comments we get into 2017 i am so excited about what we're doing amen it's going to revolutionize christian media it's going to make waves dock in the television industry as a whole not just christian television but in television industry as a whole
we're about to jump into the pool and make some waves amen and it's all for the glory of god and all i can say to our partners at you i i love you you have no idea how much i appreciate you your your gifts enable me to fulfill the vision that god has put in my heart and if you've never had a god inspired dream then you don't
understand the drive in the motivation to complete it men like you have to do it you have to complete it it's from is from the lord it's it's heaven sent and so i i eat live and breathe this vision and it must be done i'm i'm 63 doc i had you know most guys are
thinking about retiring at this point in their life and i'm i'm ramping up or face to your picking up speed i'm picking up speed and howard it all are he said that i was thinking about the reinhardt bonnke his son asking dad when are you gonna why aren't you slowing down and he said he was like a a boeing
757 he said he said as i get near liftoff i'm going to fastest at any time here now he's picking up speed and that's where i'm at i you know god willing if he gives me of many more years of good health and vitality i i hope to be a working in building this vision for years to come if not i'm building to
turn this over to some young people right that's the way i see a dog is not mine i'm building it for the body of christ i'm i'm working feverishly everyday because this has to be built this is the opportunity this is the time and if you do not do this if somebody in representing jesus christ does not do this in the coming year they will miss
the opportunity and then the window of opportunity is open now for what we're about to do and it that door will close the musical chairs the game the music will end everybody's going to take the chair and the media world will be set for maybe 30 40 years until there's another big shake-up pastor thank you so much for having this
one-on-one time with me today and just speak about the vision flowing streams and how trainees fits and all that our listeners everyday they listen to this and as you said beginning the program all they really know about us is the information that we share here on the broadcast and what a great opportunity we had today to get up for flushing out
of that vision the larger vision of flowing streams and what it all means none of that pasture the how they can be involved as listeners because really this whole ministry has been based upon listeners being involved in the broadcast from the very beginning and the only way we're going to proceed in the future our listeners once again
partnering with this joining together with us and we're not just talking finance we're talking about prayers were talking about looking for qualified the to help us build for the future there's so many aspects to this i consider privileged to be a part of the ministry pastor always look at myself i i try to represent the listener because
i was a fan of the show before i became a part of the true news team and so to see everything that's developed over the past several years it is exciting but to see what the future has in store is even more exciting and i hope our listeners are excited about what they've heard from you today about the future flowing streams and true news within that
greater picture and your dog and why i just i i invite them to partner with us to get involved with us to partner with us pray and so pray and so pray for us and so into this ministry it is fertile ground god's blessing this ministry he's giving us increase his favor is on us and he's enlarging us and and doc i we're doing something that i know god
wants done because he's he's moving us along his propelling us yes beyond our capabilities to do things you're here to watch it you see it happening right god's hand is on us and he's making things happen and and we know he wants something done and we're too busy about it and so i just encourage our partners the people are
listening write down where at the end of the year and please make that last month gift to two trues and remaining weeks of 2016 give us the boost that we need to go into 2017 we've accomplished a lot doc we've we launched prazer at the beginning the year by the fall we had built our first
television studio which we didn't get a chance in today's program to talk about what we're doing with this in the beginning of 2017 there's a reason we've held off there is a reason just trust me yes there's a reason we've held back just take my word for there is a reason and we also bought a church building in 10 acres to build bigger studios to
produce more content for what i just talked about today right there is a plan in operation here and you're about to see a lot more of it in the coming months as we go into 2017 your support has made this growth possible and your support will enable us to grow even more in 2017 go to treat his comm click donate at paypal its support at true
news.com and the address for checks money orders and precious metals is post office box 6900 69 in 0 beach florida the zip code is 329 69 god listen