judy woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. hari sreenivasan: and i'm hari sreenivasan. judy woodruff: on the "newshour" tonight:president-elect trump taps exxonmobil executive rex tillerson for secretary of state, raisingconcerns even among republicans about the pick's past connections to russia. hari sreenivasan: also ahead this tuesday:a nightmare continues, the syrian government's deadly takeover of the war-ravaged city ofaleppo. judy woodruff: and an artist's take on howto look at art, offering a simple way to enjoy
a museum. david salle, author, "how to see": it's notthat different from having a conversation with someone. the painter is telling you something. hari sreenivasan: all that and more on tonight's"pbs newshour." (break) judy woodruff: another big seat is filledin the trump cabinet-to-be, and it sets up a potential confirmation fight. the president-elect's transition team confirmedthis morning that a top oil executive is the
choice for secretary of state. after days of speculation, official word ofthe rex tillerson pick came before sunrise, followed by praise from the vice president-elect. mike pence (r), vice president-elect: we justcould not be more grateful that someone of rex tillerson's proven leadership and accomplishmentshas been willing to step forward to serve our nation as our next secretary of state. judy woodruff: tillerson, a native texan,is currently ceo of oil giant exxonmobil, among the world's largest publicly tradedcompanies. he rose through the ranks over four decades,and, as chief executive, he's expanded exxonmobil's
business overseas, including its operationsin russia. in a 2013 interview with charlie rose forcbs news, tillerson made clear his company will go wherever there's oil. rex tillerson, chairman & ceo, exxonmobil:my philosophy is to make money. and so if i can drill and make money, thenthat's what i want to do. but it really is -- for us, it's about makingquality investments for our shareholders. judy woodruff: to that end, exxonmobil beganworking closely with the russian state-owned oil giant rosneft. that, in turn, brought tillerson into closecontact with russian president vladimir putin.
since then, he's received the russian orderof friendship, and he's said he opposes u.s. and european sanctions against russia overits intervention in ukraine. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell todayhighlighted tillerson's experience, and said he looks forward to supporting his nomination. but the top democrat on the senate foreignrelations committee, ben cardin, said he is deeply troubled by tillerson's vocal oppositionto sanctions on russia, and republican senator marco rubio voiced serious concerns aboutthe planned nomination. there's also word that another texan, formergovernor rick perry, could be tapped to be energy secretary.
but the transition at energy could be rocky. the department said today that it will notprovide the names of employees who've worked on climate change, as the trump transitionteam requested. there are also reports that montana congressmanryan zinke could be tapped for interior secretary. meanwhile, president obama criticized mr.trump's lack of interest in receiving a daily intelligence briefing. he spoke last night on "the daily show." barack obama, president of the united states:it doesn't matter how smart you are. you have to have the best information possibleto make the best decisions possible.
and if you're not getting their perspective,their detailed perspective, then you are flying blind. judy woodruff: back at trump tower today,the president-elect met with microsoft billionaire bill gates. bill gates, founder, microsoft: we had a goodconversation about innovation. judy woodruff: others he met with, pro footballgreats jim brown and ray lewis and entertainer kanye west. tonight, mr. trump is making the latest stopon what he's calling his thank you tour, this time in wisconsin.
hari sreenivasan: in the day's other news:the environmental protection agency released a long-awaited report on the effects of hydraulicfracturing, or fracking, on drinking water. it found the oil and gas drilling techniquecan contaminate underground water in some cases. it also said there is not evidence to estimatethe severity of the risk. the report dropped an earlier finding thatfracking has not caused widespread systemic harm to water supplies. judy woodruff: ohio's republican governorjohn kasich has vetoed a closely watched anti-abortion bill.
he rejected a measure today that banned abortiononce the first fetal heartbeat is detected. he said federal courts have already struckdown similar laws elsewhere. kasich, however, did sign a separate billbanning abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy. seventeen states already have similar laws. hari sreenivasan: president obama today signeda sweeping law, including new spending on cancer research and drug abuse. the 21st century cures act provides more than$6 billion. it also streamlines the process for approvingdrugs and medical devices. mr. obama spoke before signing the bill ata white house ceremony with lawmakers and
vice president biden. barack obama, president of the united states:we are bringing to reality the possibility of new breakthroughs to some of the greatesthealth challenges of our time. i'm confident that it will lead to betteryears and better lives for millions of americans, the work that you have done. that's what we got sent here for. hari sreenivasan: the new law also includesfunding for mental health. we will explore that later in the program. judy woodruff: in russia, opposition politicalleader alexei navalny announced that he will
run for president in 2018. the anti-corruption activist aims to challengepresident vladimir putin, who is expected to seek a fourth term. navalny is currently on trial for fraud ina case that he says is politically motivated. if he is convicted, he would be barred fromrunning. hari sreenivasan: a railway strike acrosssouthern england today caused the worst railway disruption there in 20 years. it is part of a longstanding dispute overwhether train drivers or on-board guards should close train doors.
the drivers went on strike today for 48 hours,leaving hundreds of thousands of commuters stranded or delayed and angry, but union officialsdefended their stance. man: it's a safety issue. the reality for us is that the increasinglevel of trains, the increasing amount of footfall in the 21st century, we don't believethat the technology or the make do and mend on our important infrastructure lends itselfto a one-man operation. hari sreenivasan: the government blamed theunions for the impasse. the railway owner announced new talks fortomorrow. judy woodruff: another day, another rallyon wall street.
the dow jones industrial average gained morethan 114 points to close at a record 19911. the nasdaq rose 51, and the s&p 500 added14. hari sreenivasan: and the oldest person inamerica is another year older, but don't tell her that. adele dunlap of pittstown, new jersey, turned114 yesterday. she said she is 105, but her family said shealways shaves about a decade off her age. either way, people at her nursing home gaveher balloons and sang happy birthday. judy woodruff: and i think she should havethe right to say whatever age it is. (laughter)
hari sreenivasan: still to come on the "newshour":how exxon's ceo could shape foreign policy as secretary of state; syrians facing an onslaughtfrom government forces in aleppo record their final goodbyes; where american students rankcompared to their peers around the globe; and much more. judy woodruff: it's a post first officiallyheld by thomas jefferson. the secretary of state is america's top diplomat. today, president-elect trump tapped the ceoof the world's largest publicly traded oil and gas company for the job. so, who is rex tillerson, and what does thepick tell us about the trump agenda?
we're joined now by john hamre. he is the president and ceo of the centerfor strategic and international studies, a thank tank in washington, d.c., where tillersonis a member of the board of trustees. hamre served as deputy secretary of defenseduring the clinton administration. nicholas burns was a career diplomat and formeru.s. ambassador to nato. he's now a professor at harvard university. and steve coll is the author "private empire:exxonmobil and american power." he's also a staff writer for "the new yorker"magazine and the dean of the school of journalism at columbia university.
welcome, all three of you, back to the program. steve coll, to you first. you wrote in the new yorker this weekend thatmr. tillerson's life, you said, has been shaped by to institutions, the boy scouts and exxonmobil,a company you describe as ruthless and unusually aggressive. is that a contradiction? steve coll, dean, columbia university graduateschool of journalism: no. i think he comes from the standard oil traditionof ruthless business competition rooted in strong, strong values and a kind of adherenceto the rule of law, modeled by john d. rockefeller,
the original founder of standard oil. i think the most important part of his careeris that it's all been at one place, 40 years at exxonmobil. now that he's been nominated for secretaryof state, we really don't have any record of his views about america's place in theworld. we only have a record of his views about exxonmobil'splace in the world, which is different, i hope. and so there's a whole series of questionsnow in front of us. what does he think about promoting human rights?
what does he think about promoting democracy? these are not -- is he worried about russia'sinfluence in europe? these are not questions that he's had to address,and that makes him a very unusual nominee for secretary. typically, even nominees who have come andgone from industry have built up a record of views about these fundamental questionsof foreign policy. judy woodruff: john hamre, as we said, youknow rex tillerson, having served on your board at the center for strategic and internationalstudies. what is your understanding of his view ofthe united states' role in the world?
john hamre, president and ceo, center forstrategic and international studies: well, i have known rex well. i have known him for 11 years. he's been a very active member of our board. he's always engaged substantively in our discussionsabout foreign policy. he's remarkably insightful. he has more experience as a ceo than mostpolitical figures in washington. he's able to lead conversations in front ofsome of the most impressive people of our history in foreign policy, people like henrykissinger and zbigniew brzezinski.
he fits squarely in the tradition of americanrealism, a pragmatic, centrist realism. he sees the leadership of america as shapinga better world. he actively believes strongly in americanvalues, due process, rule of law. but he's also very pragmatic. he wants to know what other people think. he listens carefully. that's one of the most important qualities,he listens so well. so you're going to find a very fine secretaryin rex tillerson. judy woodruff: nicholas burns, based on whatyou know of rex tillerson, what do you know
and what are your concerns? nicholas burns, former u.s. undersecretaryof state for political affairs: well, he's an impressive man, by all accounts. and he's run our largest corporations. he has had significant managerial and internationalexperience as a negotiator. that is going to stand him in good stead. he was endorsed today publicly, very strongly,by former secretary of defense bob gates, former secretary of state condi rice. i admire both of those people.
those are serious recommendations. but, judy, i think there is going to be areal challenge to his nomination, and that's his closeness to the russian regime and whathe's been saying about russian policy. and i think the backdrop here to his senateconfirmation will be the extraordinary statements made by donald trump about russia during thecampaign. i don't think we have had in 70 years a presidentialcandidate, and now a president-elect, so accommodating to russia. no criticism by donald trump about russia'sillegal annexation of crimea. no criticism about russia's division of thedonbass of ukraine.
no criticism of russia's harassment of ournato allies, poland and the baltic states. and no criticism of this barbaric russianbombing of the civilian population of aleppo. a lot of people feel we should be containingputin, and there's a great concern that donald trump and general flynn, the new nationalsecurity adviser, and perhaps mr. tillerson -- we don't know yet -- he has a right tospeak on behalf of his own views -- that this administration will be too tilted to makeexcuses for putin. we might have a weak policy. that's where i think the senators are goingto focus in january. judy woodruff: well, it's hard to know whatdonald trump believes, but, steve coll, based
on your reporting of rex tillerson and exxonmobil,what do you see as his attitude towards russia? we know he's grown close to vladimir putin. he's received an award from him. steve coll: well, he's been an effective negotiatoron behalf of the shareholders of exxonmobil, but now he's being asked to think about russiait in an entirely different way. and i agree completely with ambassador burns'critique. this is a very dangerous moment in europe. and part of the reason is because putin hasbeen pushing the boundaries of western tolerance. also, trump's election is part of a wave ofpopulism and the strengthening of authoritarian
regimes around the world that is really goingto challenge the united states and its values. i worry about russia. i also worry about the global human rightsmovement. you know, right around the world today, thereare human rights activists, democracy activists, civil society activists that have traditionallyrelied on the secretary of state's voice speaking up for them when they're under pressure. and the state department pushes a lot of funding,including into authoritarian regimes, to support this kind of activity, human rights researchand democracy organizations. so, where is mr. tillerson on these issues?
i have no idea. he has spent 40 years managing exxonmobil'splace in the world, and it will be very important to hear him speak forthrightly, because he'snow, after the president, going to be the most important voice on behalf of americanvalues in the world. judy woodruff: john hamre, you described rextillerson as a centrist. what do you know about him that would assuagesome of these concerns, first about russia? john hamre: well, i will agree with what bothnick and steve have said that we face a very challenging time with russia. boy, that's why i'm so glad that rex is there,because he knows them so well.
i mean, knowing someone and agreeing withsomeone are two completely different things. rex does know russia very well. he knows president putin very well. he knows the dynamics within russia very well. of course he's going to have to lay out histhinking during his nomination hearing. i'm not at all worried that rex is going tostand up for america or american values. judy woodruff: well, nicholas burns, i wantto ask you to respond to that, but also move on to iran, because there have been questionsraised about what rex tillerson would do with regard to u.s. posture toward iran, and thenuclear -- the nuclear deal.
nicholas burns: well, i do agree with johnthat rex tillerson's track record is very encouraging as a centrist, as a pragmaticperson, and as a real leader of a big, complex organization. i think those are all in good stead. my questions aren't about him. they're about the president-elect and hisextraordinary statements. and, judy, on iran, donald trump has beensaying that -- this is the nuclear deal that president obama negotiated is the worst dealin the history of the world. it's going to be very difficult for a trumpadministration to disengage the united states
from the nuclear deal, because, if we do that,i'm convinced that germany, france, and britain will not walk out with us. they want to see this deal through. and if we walk out, then, of course, iranwould already have received sanctions relief, but iran then could walk away on its own andgo back to resuming its nuclear program. i think that's a very bad outcome. and i think a smart decision -- and you willhave pragmatic people like general mattis at defense and rex tillerson at state to tellthe president-elect that a smart decision is going to be to stay with the nuclear deal,but try to limit iranian behavior in the sunni
world, and support those countries that arevictims of iranian aggression. judy woodruff: steve coll, quickly, is theresomething you can shed -- that would shed light on rex tillerson and his posture towardiran from your reporting? steve coll: well, he has been realistic inseeking stability in the middle east. he has advocated for a world that is managed,rather than disrupted. he is skeptical about sanctions, though hisallies have clarified in the last few days that he's more worried about enforcing themthan imposing them, but they are a very important instrument of american foreign policy thathe has often advocated against. now, in his public role, he may have to clarifyhis views about that.
judy woodruff: and, quickly, again, john hamre,and just finally, if we look to russ tillerson -- i'm sorry -- to rex tillerson in termsof u.s. policy towards iran, toward russia overall, what should americans think? is this a man who is going to do exactly whatdonald trump wants, or will he speak up to donald trump when he disagrees with him? john hamre: well, i have no doubt that rextillerson will give his private counsel to the president, president-elect, in a verydirect manner. i think he will be quite influential, frankly,with the president-elect. he's not a man who is shy of sharing his viewsonce he has reached them.
we really don't need to worry about rex tillerson. i promise you. this is a man of great character. and he is going to have a challenging environmentin this administration. he will do well. judy woodruff: john hamre, nicholas burns,steve coll, we thank you all. nicholas burns: thank you. hari sreenivasan: the years-long battle forcontrol of syria's largest city, aleppo, is over.
a punishing bombardment by syrian and russianjets and deadly ground operations brought an end to the siege of the last rebel areasof the city. it's a major turning point in the brutal half-decadewar. chief foreign affairs correspondent margaretwarner begins our coverage. margaret warner: after four years of fighting,the end is at hand in eastern aleppo. word came late today of agreement on a cease-fireand evacuation from the shattered city. brita hagi hasan, president, east aleppo localcouncil (through translator): the agreement includes the groups of fighters and the civilians,but my heart is full of pain, full of emotion for having to ask for a complete evacuationof all civilians.
margaret warner: in addition, russian officialsannounced joint military operations with the syrians against rebel-held eastern aleppohave also ended. anne barnard, who has been covering the syrianconflict for the new york times syria and from beirut, said the cease-fire assures rebelsand civilians they will be evacuated to a safe place. anne barnard, beirut bureau chief, the newyork times: the plan is for them to go to other rebel-held areas, which had been a demandof the civilians and rebels there because they were afraid that if they went to thegovernment side, as tens of thousands of people have done, they would be arrested or faceother reprisals.
inside the government-held districts of thecity, life was going on more or less as normal, but there was the constant danger of shellingfrom the rebel side. margaret warner: in government-held west aleppo,there was jubilation. but in the east, thousands of civilians arealready fleeing, and there are reports are mass killings by government forces and theirallies pouring into the city. u.n. officials say more than 80 people wereexecuted in a single neighborhood, many of them women and children. other reports told of dozens of children trappedin a building under attack. overnight, activists in the city posted grimgoodbyes on social media.
woman: we are here exposed to a genocide inthe besieged city of aleppo. this may be my last video. man: we were a free people. we wanted freedom. we didn't want anything else but freedom. margaret warner: the fall of eastern aleppomarks a watershed in the five-year syrian civil war. opposition forces first took part of the cityin 2012. they prevailed for years, until october 2015,when russia stepped in to bolster the syrian
military with punishing air assaults. when cease-fire talks brokered by the unitedstates collapsed last month, the onslaught intensified. at the u.n. today, u.s. ambassador samanthapower put the onus on russia and syria. samantha power, u.s. ambassador to the unitednations: is there no act of barbarism against civilians, no execution of a child that getsunder your skin, that just creeps you out a little bit? is there nothing you will not lie about orjustify? margaret warner: even the fall of aleppo willnot mean an end to the syrian war.
president bashar al-assad has vowed to crushthe resistance to his rule throughout the entire country. rebel forces still operating in northern syriaare bracing for an assault by government troops. the chief syrian opposition coordinator insiststhe loss of aleppo will not make them give up. riad hijab, chief syrian opposition coordinator(through translator): if assad and his allies think that a military advance in certain quartersof aleppo signifies that we will make concessions on the goals of the revolution, that willnot happen. margaret warner: meanwhile, islamic statefighters took advantage of the government's
focus on aleppo this week to recapture theancient syrian city of palmyra. for the "pbs newshour," i'm margaret warner. hari sreenivasan: today, a group of scholarsand middle east experts met at rice university's james baker institute of public policy inhouston to discuss options for the new trump administration of a region once again transformedby the fall of aleppo. two of those experts join me now, randa slimof the middle east institute, and joshua landis of the university of oklahoma. randa, let me start with you. what does this mean now that military operationsare over in eastern aleppo?
randa slim, middle east institute: well, itmeans this phase of the conflict is over, but, as the syrian officials have themselvesdeclared, the war is far from over. what also this win -- and it is a win forthe regime, political and military win -- means is, it spells the end of the negotiation process. until now, assad has paid lip service to theidea of negotiations and political process to end the civil war in syria. and i think now he's going to be definitelydead set against it, because he will look at this as, you know, winning, winning thiswar, and that there's no need for him to make the necessary concessions to make the politicalnegotiation successful, including, you know,
transitioning out of power, which is one ofthe premise of the political negotiations started in geneva. hari sreenivasan: joshua landis, what's theimpact of the end of this battle vs. the end of the war? joshua landis, university of oklahoma: well,the center of gravity for opposition now shifts to idlib province and idlib city. that city is dominated by the al-qaida wingof the opposition and other salafist forces. the united states and the west cannot supportthose salafists and al-qaida. it means that the rebels are going to havea very hard time getting significant amounts
of support. and it also means on a larger scale that anew security architecture is being laid down in the northern middle east, lebanon, syria,iraq, in which pro-iranian governments are consolidating their grip on the territoryand they're backed by russia, to a large degree. and this has caused great grief and consternationin saudi arabia and amongst many of the united states' allies, israel, the gulf countries,turkey, because they see this new architecture of security and iranian influence and russianinfluence as something that's very bad for them. and the united states' course is being pulledin to try to counter that.
hari sreenivasan: randa slim, as josh justmentioned, there are so many different actors here. let's take them kind of one at a time. what happens to the rebels now after thismilitary setback? randa slim: i think they have -- they arein for some serious evaluation of their tactics and of, you know, what they have achievedand why they have failed until now, i mean, given the odds they were facing. part of them definitely will buy into thisidea that, you know, extremism is the way to go.
and so the win in aleppo will fuel the narrativeof groups like al-qaida. and you will see more people maybe being attractedto this idea. but, also, i think there will be a group ofthe rebels that need to focus on shifting strategy away from holding territory, andbecause they cannot do that, you know, when faced with the -- with the aggression fromthe syrian regime and from the russian forces, and shift that would -- becoming an insurgency,and employing tactics to defeat these forces in a way that make them viable in this battle. hari sreenivasan: joshua landis, what aboutisis and al-qaida that almost seem forgotten in this giant proxy war?
what happens? is isis taking advantage of this opportunity,as margaret warner reported? joshua landis: yes, isis did. we saw that, as syrian troops went to aleppo,isis took palmyra. but isis' days are numbered. the trump administration has said that they'regoing to concentrate on isis and they're going to work with russia. now, we don't know whether they really willwork with russia or not, but it's clear that isis is going to be pounded.
who is going to benefit from that? it's quite clear the syrian regime in syria,as the iraqi regime in iraq is benefiting from america's effort to destroy those oppositionforces in both countries. and there aren't any other rebel forces thatone can foresee on the horizon that will be able to take eastern syria that's now occupiedby isis. but the syrian government will be there. it's weak today, but it's been gathering strength. and i think it's likely that, in the nextfew years, you will see the syrian government retake much of syria.
now, this is disputed amongst experts. there are a lot of people here today at ourconference who think that that's not likely to happen, that there may be enclaves andso forth. but i think the assad regime is on a roll. i think it's got the backing of russia andiran and hezbollah. and it's hard to see who is going to standin their way in this steady fight against the insurgents. hari sreenivasan: randa slim, what happensto u.s. support, considering that there is this shift in momentum militarily?
what happens to the aid that we're givingto these rebels? randa slim: look, i mean, we have now a newadministration that's going to take power in january. and we already have heard from mr. trump duringthe campaign that the priority of his administration will be focusing on fighting isis, and thathe's against nation-building, against regime change. so, i'm going -- i would expect us to moveinto some kind of a security dialogue with the russians about what to do in syria. however, the russians have the baggage.
and that's iranian baggage they're going tobring with them with any kind of dialogue with americans. and you have already this contradiction betweenan american administration that wants to engage with the russians, but also an american administrationthat sees iran as a great threat. and so the question is how you're going tosquare these two contradictory, in a way, positions and attitudes as you enter intoa security dialogue with the russians. but when it comes to the support of our allies-- and, primarily, the main ally has been the kurds -- i see the possibility, as a resultof this american-russian security dialogue, i see the possibility of the kurds -- of adeal, in a way, being struck, at the expense
of the kurds in northern syria. hari sreenivasan: joshua landis, are the kurdsthe ones that get squeezed out in this process, where they have to have the support of theu.s. to continue on, but, at the same time, turkey wants nothing to do in any close independenceof theirs? joshua landis: well, i do believe that thekurds are in a difficult situation. they do have some american support. how consistent that will be is unclear. but they have built up a strong military,and they have begun to build the institutions of an autonomous life in northern syria.
turkey's enmity towards the kurds and theirdesire to make sure there is no independent kurdish state or even really autonomous enclaveis going to push the kurds into assad's hands over time. they're going to have to strike a bargainwith assad that will keep them in the syrian state and under some kind of syrian authority,so that they can have the protection of international legitimacy and the syrian army against theturks. how much -- how they can bargain with assadis unclear. what kind of negotiations they can come to,unclear. we will see whether they get something likethe kurds in iraq, which is a large measure
of autonomy, or something less than that. that will be one of the big negotiations tocome out of this process. hari sreenivasan: all right, joshua landis,randa slim, thank you both. joshua landis: pleasure. hari sreenivasan: we have more online. before aleppo was devastated by war, the citywas a thriving hub with a proud history dating back millennia. find images from before and after the destructionat pbs.org/newshour. judy woodruff: stay with us.
coming up on the "newshour": a new law tobolster the united states' mental health system; and learning to see art with an artist's eye. but first: international tests are one wayof gauging how american kids are doing in school compared with other countries. traditionally, the u.s. performance has beendescribed as mediocre, and this year was no different. the most recent test scores show the u.s.is stagnant in reading and science. in math, our country ranks toward the bottomof developed nations. what these results tell us about educationalpriorities around the world is a bit more
nuanced. special correspondent kavitha cardoza withour partner education week met with international students to ask them first-hand about thedifferences. it's part of our weekly series making thegrade. kavitha cardoza: calvin leong loves soccer. calvin leong, student: i started soccer reallyyoung. and i just can't stop playing soccer becauseit's really fun. kavitha cardoza: two years ago, calvin andhis family moved to the u.s. because of his father's work.
his mother margaret, says if he was stillliving in his home country, hong kong, just like his former classmates, calvin would havehad to give up soccer. margaret tsang, mother of calvin: calvin'sfriends in hong kong have to give up playing soccer because they have to focus and concentratein their studying. kavitha cardoza: she says there are only afew universities in hong kong, so competition is fierce. margaret tsang: that's why parents would likethem to have extra lessons, even after school for almost six hours. so, i think they can balance studying andextracurricular activities here.
kavitha cardoza: other countries have, attimes, wrestled with that lack of balance, and some have even turned to high-performingu.s. schools for lessons in building student skills, such as creativity and collaboration. but, academically, when calvin moved here,he found general classes much easier in the u.s. calvin leong: in hong kong, math-wise, it'sdefinitely super competitive and everyone, like, move in the same pace. so it's pretty hard to catch up if you fallbehind. but, in america, you can choose your own pace.
kavitha cardoza: calvin loves the diversityof u.s. schools and says he's made lots of friends, even if many of them don't know wherehe's from. calvin leong: when people ask me about hongkong, i connect hong kong with the hollywood movies they saw like the "transformers" andthe "batman." kavitha cardoza: hong kong is also known forbeing a place that does very well on international tests, unlike the u.s., where the academicperformance this year was lackluster. the u.s. ranks in the middle of the pack whenit comes to reading and science. in math, it ranked 31st out of 35 countries. the pisa test is taken every three years by15-year-olds from dozens of countries.
what makes this test interesting is that itdoesn't gauge what students can memorize, in other words, what you can google. the pisa test looks to see what students cando with what they know. woman: they are asked to interpret texts,solve mathematics problems. kavitha cardoza: andreas schleicher overseesthe pisa test. he says the school systems of today are theeconomies of tomorrow. andreas schleicher, pisa test: you look ata country like korea in the 1960s. korea had the level of the economic developmentof afghanistan today, one of the least developed education systems.
but it got education right. it became one of its most successful economies. the power of education to transform societiesand generate both economic and social outcomes is just tremendous. kavitha cardoza: economic prosperity, internationalcompetitiveness, national security, those are a few of the reasons countries take educationand, by extension, these rankings so seriously. as president obama said back in 2009, countriesthat out-educate us will outperform us. the u.s. spends markedly more money comparedto other developed countries on education, but, by high school, american students fallbehind.
schleicher says it's not about how much acountry spends on education, but how it spends the money. he says, in other countries, it's all aboutteacher quality. andreas schleicher: and i'm not only talkingabout making teaching financially more attractive. i'm also talking about making teaching intellectuallymore attractive. and that's probably where the united statesis furthest away from some of the highest-performing education systems, where you really have amuch greater investment in the quality of teaching. kavitha cardoza: u.s. secretary of educationjohn king has one word for the results.
john king, u.s. education secretary: i wouldsay that we are disappointed. kavitha cardoza: king says the obama administrationhas championed educational best practices, for example, an emphasis on teacher qualityand early education. many states have also adopted the common core,which sets high standards of what children should know at each grade. but, he says: john king: one of the challenges in our system,different from many of our international competitors, is that it is a highly decentralized system,so change takes a particularly long time. kavitha cardoza: a lot of people say, youknow, it's not fair to look at these results
and compare us to other countries which aremore homogeneous. john king: sure, we have to be cautious aboutthese results. at the same time, we can look at a countrylike canada that's had a very large influx of immigrants over the last few years andis doing better. we can look at countries around the worldlike poland, which is a country that has significant population of low-income students, and yetthey have made a lot of progress over the last decade. and we should ask why. kavitha cardoza: julia kempster and her familymoved from new zealand to maryland earlier
this year. she gets asked a lot of questions from classmates. julia kempster, student: can you talk forme? can you say the number 10 for me? is it true that there's one person to every65 sheep? kavitha cardoza: school is very differentin the u.s., more students, more tests. but the biggest difference, julia says, is,in new zealand, she had to interpret and analyze information a lot more. julia kempster: here, it's like you get everythingfrom the book.
it's like the facts are the facts. and there's lots of dates you have to memorize,because everything is very important. and it's not a lot about what you think, butwhat's in the book. kavitha cardoza: despite the differences,julia's a typical teenager. she loves the social aspect of her u.s. school. julia kempster: in america, like, you havea lot of dances and social things you get to go to, which is very fun. you get to do, obviously, like homecomingand everything like that. yes, it's fun.
tom loveless, brookings institution: americanhigh schools place a huge emphasis on the social life of teenagers. kavitha cardoza: and that's part of the problem,says tom loveless with the brookings institution. he says homecoming, prom, rallies may helpteach teamwork and creativity, but don't improve academics. he says we need to look at the role cultureplays in reinforcing education. loveless surveyed almost 400 foreign exchangestudents who spent a year in an american high school, and asked them about the relativeimportance given to math and sports. tom loveless: i asked them, among your friends,among your peer groups, how important is it
to be successful at mathematics? and they said, well -- the foreign exchangessaid, well, back home, it's fairly important whether or not you're good at mathematics. in the united states, not so much. and then i asked them about sports. how important is it to be a good athlete? and with both boys and girls, and no matterfrom what country they came from, they said, in the united states, the emphasis on beinga good athlete was much more important in the united states than back with their peergroups in their home country.
kavitha cardoza: there is a bright spot whenit comes to this year's pisa test results. the gap between rich and poor students inthe u.s. is closing faster than any other developed country, but it will take a lotmore effort to reach the top. for the "pbs newshour" and education week,i'm kavitha cardoza, reporting from bethesda, maryland. hari sreenivasan: most of the attention aroundthe big biomedical bill signed by president obama today has focused on faster drug approvaland new money for research, but it's a huge piece of legislation. and one key part that's received less attentionis the attempt to improve mental health care
in the u.s. william brangham has a look. william brangham: advocates say this partof the legislation is the most significant step forward for mental health care in nearlya decade. the law promotes a range of mental healthinitiatives, including more evidence-based early intervention for young people. it expands outpatient mental health care. and to coordinate it all, it creates a newassistant secretary position. for more on this, i'm joined now by the leadauthor of the legislation, congressman tim
murphy, republican of pennsylvania. he's also a practicing psychologist. welcome. rep. tim murphy (r), pennsylvania: great to bewith you. william brangham: before we get into the specificsof the legislation, i wonder if you could just give me an overview of what you see wherewe are failing in our treatment of mental health care in this country. tim murphy: well, in any given year, 60 millionamericans are affected by some level of mental
illness, from the very mild to the very serious,10 million with very serious mental illness. four million get no treatment at all. states spend an enormous amount of money,in the federal government about $130 billion spread across 112 agencies, although mostof that is just disability payments. and we're not doing a good job, because whathas happened is, over the years, when we have seen a dropping of death rates for cancer,it's gone down, diabetes, infectious disease, lung disease, aids, all declined, increasingfor suicide, increasing for substance abuse. and when we closed all those big asylums,those big hospitals that were out there for a century or so -- we needed to close themdown -- but we didn't provide outpatient care.
so what do we do? we have filled our jails with them. the majority of people in jails, the stateand local jails, are people with a mental illness disorder, too. eight out of 10 people in an emergency roomhave some related mental health disorder. five percent of the people on medicaid areresponsible for 50 percent of all medicaid spending. and those are people with a concurrent mentalillness. so, you see, in terms of costs, in terms ofthe costs of lives, 959 a day, 350,000 in
this country last year, related to mentalillness, primary, secondary, that's more deaths in one year than the entire combat deathsof world war i -- of the united states in world war i, korea, vietnam, bosnia, desertstorm, afghanistan, and iraq, in one year. it's a serious problem. william brangham: really some startling numbersthere. so, let's talk about some of the specifics. you create an assistant secretary for mentalhealth and substance use disorders. i know that is something that was very importantto you. why that?
tim murphy: because we needed someone to takethe helm. what we found in the gao, general accountingoffice, reports, they said there was no accountability for the grant programs. and, oftentimes, we were funding really embarrassingsilly grant programs, such as a web site that had a special hot line you could call if youwere upset about the snow in new england, if you had snow anxiety, how to make a fruitsmoothie if you were upset, making collages, masks, interpretive dancing, a $20,000 paintinghanging in someone's office about mental health with two people sitting on a rock. total waste of money.
we had to put someone in charge who can takethe helm of these 112 federal agencies, work with them, with the va, with dod, and others,and start to coordinate evidence-based care directed towards those who need it, work onprevention, work on those with serious mental illness, but someone with the clout behindtheir name to do that. william brangham: one of the things we oftenhear about is there are simply not enough beds for people who need them and not enoughpractitioners to help those who need help. what does this legislation do to address that? tim murphy: well, regard to the practitioners,half the counties in america have no psychiatrist, no psychologist.
william brangham: half? tim murphy: half -- and no clinical socialworker. and of those that do have psychiatrists, butwe have 9,000 child and adolescent psychiatrists. we need 30,000. and, by the way, serious mental illness, halfthe cases emerge by age 14, 75 percent by age 24. but you can't get care. it's not there. so, we invest about $50 million to help withthe new work force to build that up.
and in the bed issue, we also work with medicaidthat, right now, they had a 16-bed limit, which is absurd. if you're between the ages of 22 and 64, youcan't any in a private psychiatric hospital that has more than 16 beds. that's not enough. so, we make them homeless or we put them injail. so, this lists that and says 15-day averagelength of stay per month. that's not enough, i know. it's not going to address everything.
but it sure is better to be in a hospitalbed than laying on a park bench in the cold or being in a jail cell. william brangham: just as you mentioned, obviously,one of the first-responders that often are interacting with people who have mental healthcrises are our police forces all over the country. and they're not really well-equipped to dealwith this. do you tackle that in this legislation? tim murphy: we do. we put a few million dollars into that.
it's called crisis intervention training. i think, two years ago, the washington postdid a story and reported there was 250 deaths from police encountering someone with a mentalillness who then attacked the policeman, came in with a knife or a gun or something. and that's too many. what we do is fund the programs, which arevery, very effective in training policemen when they know someone has a serious mentalillness or they're in crisis or they can kind of identify from the situation. they learn techniques to calm the person down,and so that it's not a confrontation, and
it will save some lives, and get the personin treatment. william brangham: you have supported repealingthe affordable care act. and some of your democratic colleagues, wholaud this legislation, say that, if you repeal the aca, which has a lot of provisions tocare for the mentally ill, that you're shooting your legislation in the foot. tim murphy: yes. william brangham: what's your response tothat? tim murphy: well, i fought too hard for this. i have worked in this field for 40 years.
i welcome the teamwork of my colleagues onthe other side of the aisle to say we have to make sure we preserve this. the reason it's so important is, if we'regoing to find cost savings in retooling and reforming health care, a lot of it comes fromthe integrated care of the mentally ill, with mental illness, behavioral illness, and physicalillness. when you find someone with a chronic illness,they're twice the rate of depression among and untreated depression doubles their healthcare costs. when you hone in and treat both at the sametime by integrating behavioral and physical medicine, when the physician takes charge,when you have capitated plans, so it's incentive
for the doctors to do all that, you actuallycan reduce spending for those people by about 40 percent to 50 percent, while you're providingbetter care. so, this is a lesson i want to make sure mycolleagues to know. this is the thing what we ought to be doing. it's good with compassion. it's good morally. and it saves money. william brangham: but do you worry that ifthe aca is repealed, that a lot of what you're trying to do, lauded work here, is going toget thrown out?
tim murphy: you're talking to someone whohas spent the last four years in the trenches fighting for this, and a lot of members whowere part of this team, too. i don't see us just throwing this out. we will work together to make sure these provisionsstay in. and even so, part of that concern is whatstates are going to do with medicaid money, with block grants. william brangham: right. tim murphy: when states got block grants,you saw a number of states, like rhode island and ohio, they just pulled the money out.
william brangham: all right. representative tim murphy of pennsylvania,thank you very much. tim murphy: thank you. judy woodruff: now: freeing yourself to appreciateart in all its forms and colors. that's the focus of our latest addition tothe "newshour" bookshelf. and for that, we go to jeffrey brown. jeffrey brown: what do we see when we lookat art? something that gives us pleasure or movesus not at all. many of us perhaps aren't sure what it iswe're supposed to be taking in or trying to
understand. the painter david salle wants us to trustourselves more in looking, but also to consider how something is made, as well as what itis. his new book is titled "how to see." david salle, author, "how to see": i thinkit enhances one's enjoyment, if you can put yourself a little bit into the place of themaker, imagine how it was made, imagine what's involved in making it. jeffrey brown: because it is a thing thatwas made, right? david salle: art is something someone made.
it's a product of human endeavor. as such, it's not that different from havinga conversation with someone. the painter is telling us something. just, how do they -- what's their syntax? what's their inflection? jeffrey brown: which, in painterly terms,means what brush you use, what... david salle: it can be. can be how wide the brush is, or how skinnythe rectangle is, or if it's even a painting at all, if it has any marks on it at all.
jeffrey brown: salle himself has been a prominentartist since the 1980s, known for his large-scale collage-style paintings that incorporate disparateimages from a variety of sources. some newer ones hung in his brooklyn studio,where we talked recently. one way to look at a painting is to noticethose images, here a car, a watermelon, a cigarette pack, and more. but how you make these connections is whatmost interests salle. david salle: what this painting does, andmost paintings do, is gives you a path for your eye to move around. the painting actually tells your eye, go here,now go here, now go here, go here.
so all you have to do is look at it, giveit a few seconds, and your eye will start to move through the painting. jeffrey brown: in his book of essays, salleoffers an artist's view of other artists, georg baselitz, dana schutz, john baldessari,and many others, and the decisions they made, the paths they chose, the reasons a paintingworks or doesn't, as with a favorite and friend of his, alex katz. david salle: big brush or small brush? i mean, in alex's case, a really big brush,a really big brush moved with some velocity, using his whole arm, across a pretty big surface,ending in a very fine point, doing that in
a way which seems both premeditated and alsofree and spontaneous. that's what you see. and then your brain translates that into mainewoods. oh, i like that place. i want to go back there. but what enables you to have that sensationis the physical act of painting. jeffrey brown: you talk about the artist christopherwool. so, that's an abstract painting. i don't quite know what i'm looking at inthat sense, or at least it's not recognizable.
david salle: right. so, in the example of christopher wool, thenot quite knowing what you're looking at is part of the experience. his paintings are made with such a complicated,impacted and self-referential set of gestures, marks and mechanical representations of gesturesand marks and their interaction. it's very hard to tease them apart. jeffrey brown: that's what you mean by thehow in a case like that, all those kinds of decisions? david salle: yes.
yes. the how is also the scale, the size, the color. the -- all of the physical characteristicsof the thing are the how. jeffrey brown: and then one more example wouldbe malcolm morley, right, in... so, malcolm paints -- typically paints paintingsof models, thousands of densely packed brush strokes made with a very small brush, intenselyconcentrated over small areas of the canvas, one after the other. so, this agitated, densely packed surfaceis the how, which becomes the what. jeffrey brown: you're a painter, so you golook at these things and say, oh, how did
he do this, how did she do that? do i have to know the how? do i have to know how it was done? david salle: i don't think you have to knowanything, really. but i think if you look for more than 10 seconds,you will start to -- without being told anything, you will start to notice those things. you will notice. if you go to a concert, you will notice, isit loud? is the music fast?
is it predominately strings or brass? there are things we can all register, whetherwe are musicians or not. painting's no different. taking pleasure in projecting oneself intothe painting is the act of looking. that's what looking is. jeffrey brown: you write at one point, it'sa mistake to ask a work of art to be all things to all people. what can we ask of a work of art? what should we ask of it?
david salle: i think a good painting or agood work of art does many things it wants, i mean, maybe 15 or 20 or 100. one of the things a painting does is to makethe room look better. it improves the wall that it's on. jeffrey brown: yes, nothing wrong with that. david salle: which is much harder than itlooks. and that's a good thing. and if one engages with a painting on thatlevel, that's fine, that's great. after some time, familiarity, the other thingsthat a painting does, the other layers, they
just start to make themselves felt. people are still making paintings. people are still enjoying paintings, lookingat paintings. paintings still have something to tell us. there's a way of being in the world that paintingbrings to us, that painters bring to the task that we absorb and are able to be in dialoguewith. that's something that's part of us. jeffrey brown: from brooklyn, new york, i'mjeffrey brown for the "pbs newshour." judy woodruff: it's wonderful to hear whatan artist thinks art is, for a change.
hari sreenivasan: yes. yes, because we always wonder, what was thepainter thinking? judy woodruff: exactly. well, on the "newshour" online right now:how vital is the president's daily intelligence briefing? the president-elect has taken an unprecedentedapproach, ignoring the briefing most days altogether. so how do national security and intelligenceexperts see this move? we explore that on our web site, pbs.org/newshour.
hari sreenivasan: and that's the "newshour"for tonight. i'm hari sreenivasan. judy woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the "pbs newshour," thankyou, and good night.